So I sat here and typed out this wonderful "first post" about my feelings about the current state of Concours, but must have hit the wrong buton, as it never showed up on the forum. My fingers have a bad memory so I'll just say that maybe GOD interviened and allowed me to keep it more simple this time around.

It amazes me how sometimes we have inept people being selected as judge. I've had this conversation with a few other note-worthy painters and they feel the same. Some have come to the point of no longer entering cars at races just to avoid the dissapointment and subsiquent anger and frustration. it can be so frustrating to spend so many hours just placing decals on a NASCAR to give it a realistic, authentic apperance, and additional time to mask and shoot the car and detail a 3D interior, only to have a simple two tone paintjob with a paper interior (sorry Durl) come out on top.
Last season I had what I (and most everyone at the race) feel is the BEST car I've ever painted fail to make the podium.
My day was done at that point. the whole idealogy and spirit of what Concours d'Elegance is truely about gets lost in the lack of knowledge by whoever is appointed (most always at the last second) on race day.

So there. . . . I've had my chance to vent a little frustration and no one's expense. I'm only hopful that these words might just pop up on the appropriate computer monitors and someone might "get a clue"

My program tells me "More will be revealed", so lets see how it goes.
more thoughts later. . .

Smokie, I was hoping someone else would have replied to this by now, but since they haven't, I will.

As there are no official criteria for what constitutes "beauty" or "cool" or "good" or even "realistic", concours participants will always be at the mercy of the subjective nature of the pageant. And by that I mean the judges eyeballs and sensibilities. One person's cool is another person's not realistic. If they don't like pastels and your amazing lavender and beige Monte Carlo (the one that you spent three days hand painting stubble on the driver's chin) shows up, guess what? You don't make the podium. Try the same body at the next race and see what happens.

There is one solution. A panel of three judges. Of course, then the beauty pageant takes three times longer, but if it is important to enough racers, they'd make it happen. I'd suggest suggesting it to the Grand Pooh-bahs at NorCal and see what they say. Maybe start a thread on the NorCal/SCRA section here at PS, and get some reaction. I think there are a handful of guys who care about this stuff, and you know who they are. As for most of the racers, you're lucky to get three numbers drawn on with a Sharpie (one of MY pet peeves , but don't tell anyone or they'll never stop making fun of me). All that added weight those decals put on your car really slow it down .

If the discrepancy between what is generally acknowledged to be a winning concours entry and an obvious scam to ensure the locals win the plaques (and remember we're talking about cheaply produced plaques here) is blatant, everyone will know it, the "winners" will know it, and the image of that judges fairness will be forever tainted. IMHO that's a pretty big price to pay for some cheap, short-lived glory. At a slot car race.

You've certainly won your share of crappy little plaques and your status as an Exalted Master is unquestioned. Your Rat Rod Nascar may be the coolest stock car I've ever seen. Plus, nobody, and I mean NOBODY can work a paper interior the way you do. But if this situation is going to change, the folks like you who care have to make the solutions happen.

Now, shouldn't you be posting up some pix of your latest mindbenders?

Durl

WeLLLLLLLLLL I can't help myself. First and formost ----we paint to race ---no trailor queens ---I can't count the amount of HRs dedicated to sniffing printer colors and paint fumes , only to watch some car with solid paint and a set of stickers walk away with a first place , BUT the win is in the eye of the beholder----mabey the judge likes RED mabey he likes BLACK , the guy might even figure that decals are hard to put on , many bodies I see are so busy that a judge starts looking and can't see the car, personally I have had quite a few that went by the wayside for that fact . A CLEAN car with a great paint job that goes with the class of car you are putting it on gets some attention,(does the sticker set or paint job belong on a different class of car)?
Now-----HERE is the real question-----(and I have been on both sides of this story)---IS the judge looking for a concours car ---or is he looking for a BEST of show -----WAY,-- LOTS of difference ----are they looking at the car in total (chassis, body, interior, wheels and tires) Does it look like(or could)look like a car that exists This is concours-----Now we start spraying tons of prismatic lines that pass over and go under other lines with ten different colors thet blend into the next color,flames with gost flames in those flames, spatters and speckles on only certain portions of the paint job, marbelizing different paints on the same body, WOW I'm already tired, THIS is what is considered BEST of show. I really doubt that many people take this in to consideration when someone ask them to do the judging, I have spent time being that guy and I don't care what you see, some other guy will disagree, so as I said, the win is in the eye of the beholder.
Just a note----I won over a good friend of mine at a race in Vallejo because my wieght was put in the car better than the other guy's (both paint jobs were great) the judge just could not find something to pick out other than that.
I have and will again offer my services to the judging of concours---- this needs to be split between atleast two or three people in case one can't make all races------this is a whole other rant.......
Can you say BEEERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

BUT YOU STILL CAN'T CONTROLL SOMEBODY'S BAD TASTE !!!!!! !!!!!!. EVEN IF THERE ARE 3 JUDGES !
ONE MIGHT BE BLIND AND THE OTHERONE HAS POP BOTTLE GLASSES AND THE TIRD ONE IS VERY COLOR BLIND !!!! .
YA KNOW WHAT I MEAN !!!.
BUT!!!!

MAYBE IF WE HAD A SMALL CHECK-OFF LIST TO GO BY WITH POINTS TO BE AWARED FOR THE CARS : (LETS SAY 3 pt. FOR ALL PAINT AND 1pt. FOR PAINT/DECALS. SO ON AND SO ON.)
THEN MAYBE THAT MIGHT SORT OUT THE BAD JUDGES FORM THE REAL BAD ONES !!.???????????

OTHER THING ON THE LIST???
CLEAN?
INTERIORS 3-D = 5pt. AND PAPER =2pt. SCT.
HOW CHERRY IS THE CHASSIS?? 5pt. --1pt.
YOU KNOW STUFF LIKE THAT!!!.

THAT'S HOW A REAL CAR SHOW COMES UP WITH THEIR WINNERS..................JUST A THOUGHT!!!.

BUT THEN WHAT DO I KNOW.!!

here's something close to the actual e-mail I sent off to the presiding administrator of NCSCRA.

to me, it's pointless to compare apples to oranges to lemons to grapefruit. Thats what we do in NCSCRA at every race. Whoever is chosen for the the judge had to pick between possibly up to four different types of bodys and pull from that the podium results.
What I've suggested is that we throw the cars for judging into thier respective classes. All NASCARS will be judged seperatly, and then the same for the other three classes. Rarely does anyone put decals on a GT12, and LMP's run the gammett of authentic to just outragious paint.
Now the difference in my system would be that each car entered would be judged as a class, and then the points would be given towards a season end championship for each driver classification.

So lets say that Santa, Durl, slotrat, Johnny Lee and myself put cars out for NASCAR, and it is determined that SlotRat wins, Santa takes 2nd, and Durl a respectable 3rd. SlotRat is an advanced, so he gets 4points towards the advanced championship. Santa is a pro, so he gets 3 points for the Pro, Durl gets 2 points towards the expert championship, and John and I get 1 point each for our respective driver classification.

Does this all make sence to you guys? I'd like to do a criteria sheet and post it as well as have Bluey post it on the NCSCRA site. As for the judges, we should pick someone who is a racer and attends all the races, and has a sence of fair play and a working knowledge of whats trying to be accomplished. This way, EVERYONE knows what the judges are looking for, and how a car would be scored.



SoCal ( aka:BPR) breaks the judging into two different levels for each class. one is for realism, and the other is for originality. so each class has a podium of it's own. but then again, there's no difference in driver classification. eveyone competes in either of the two concours divisions in each class and the best three are picked from each division.

now here's the way ( if left to my own devices) I'd run concours:
NCSCRA could just drop the driver classification and just make it where the top three cars in each class are awarded points and and each driver can enter one car in each class. at the end of the season a concours championship would be awarded for each of the four car classifications NASCAR/Truck/LMP/GT12.

This might all seem like a bunch of ranting on my behalf, but I'm solely interested in making the judging of concours something entrants can take pride in, and once again know that the judging is fair.

way more than my $.02
Smokie

durl wrote:Now, shouldn't you be posting up some pix of your latest mindbenders?

Durl

Ask and you shall receive, my tall friend. .. ...

NCSCRA Monte Carlo

Ti22's for Jeff Bell's home track

John Wilbur's Porsche EVO

O/S Charger for Richard Roerhig

Not exactly mindbenders, but just a few offerings while I continue to conveless from my recent surgery. . . .
P.S.- NEVER spill thinner on a fresh incision site- OUCH!

Good replys by you both----as I've said, I'll play.

Hey wheres that noose clown?

i thought he would have been over here to looking for ataboys on his crappy paint jobs that all look the same, and that is crap

Trucker....
I feel ya, Bro. Seems that any place where he can post a picture of his work (?) it unwillingly shows up. I'm actually suprised that he doesnt have his own thread full of his cookie cutter outpourings on this blog. It's not like I don't like the guy: I've never met him. But he does have a way of self promotion that does take things over. Maybe there needs to be a "Langdon Paint and Body" as well as "Alien Artforms" or "Color by Vitter" thread on SlotBlog and anywheres else that the "Noose" runs his on-going shameless self promotion.

Isn't the Former NORCAL D3 blog (as well as PitSpace) supposed to be for and about NorCal racing and it's vast suppoters both here as well as across the pond (Hi Steve!)?